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“Knowledge is about overcoming ignorance. Wisdom is about overcoming foolishness.”
— Professor John Vervaeke
John Vervaeke (@vervaeke_john) is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. He currently teaches courses on thinking and reasoning with an emphasis on cognitive development, intelligence, rationality, mindfulness, and the psychology of wisdom.
Vervaeke is the director of UToronto’s Consciousness and Wisdom Studies Laboratory and its Cognitive Science program, where he teaches Introduction to Cognitive Science and The Cognitive Science of Consciousness, emphasizing the 4E model, which contends that cognition and consciousness are embodied, embedded, enacted, and extended beyond the brain.
Vervaeke has taught courses on Buddhism and Cognitive Science in the Buddhism, Psychology, and Mental Health program for 15 years. He is the author and presenter of the YouTube series “Awakening from the Meaning Crisis” and his brand new series, “After Socrates.”
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Want to hear another interview that ponders the nature of our relationship with reality? Have a listen to my conversation with Professor Donald Hoffman here, in which we discuss the science of consciousness, how perception may influence the physical world, the holographic model of the universe, panpsychism (and influential panpsychists), cosmological polytope, the use of hallucinogenic drugs to tap into deeper reality and interact with conscious agents, QBism, the probability of zero that humans evolved to see reality in full, and much more wild stuff.
What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.
SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…
SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE
Connect with John Vervaeke:
Website | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube
After Socrates | John Vervaeke
Awakening from the Meaning Crisis | John Vervaeke
Consciousness and Wisdom Studies Lab (CWSL) | University of Toronto
John Vervaeke’s Brilliant 4P/3R Metatheory of Cognition | Psychology Today
John Vervaeke Summarising 4P (Clip) | Rebel Wisdom with Jonathan Rowson
Affordance Theory (Gibson) | Learning Theories
Dualism | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
How Semantic Memory Works | Simply Psychology
Flow, Metaphor, and the Axial Revolution | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #2
Daoism | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
T’ai Chi Ch’uan Philosophy | Wikipedia
Searching For Bobby Fischer | Prime Video
Josh Waitzkin: 2004 Tai Chi World Cup Highlights | YouTube
Josh Waitzkin — How to Cram 2 Months of Learning into 1 Day | The Tim Ferriss Show #375
Socrates, The Monstrous | After Socrates #2
Case Studies | Harvard Business Review
Jazz Improvisation Made Simple: A Step-By-Step Guide
Christian Philosophy and Theology | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny | Amazon
Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse | Amazon
Fifth Business by Robertson Davies | Amazon
Tai Chi and Qi: A Deep Dive by John Vervaeke | TaiChiUSA
The Buddha and “Mindfulness” | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #8
Ecology of Practices | After Socrates #10a
Ecology of Practices | After Socrates #10b
Vipassana Meditation | Dhamma.org
Brief Instructions for Loving-Kindness Meditation | Metta Institute
Sharon Salzberg, World-Renowned Meditation Teacher | The Tim Ferriss Show #277
What Is the “Unforgivable Sin?” | NIV Bible
Socrates and the Quest for Wisdom | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #4
Platonism and the Platonic Tradition | Encyclopedia.com
The Axial Age: When the Greatest Minds Walked the Earth | Big Think
Buddhism and Parasitic Processing | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #13
Parasitic Processing — The Cognitive Science of Overthinking | Dismantled Mind
No Free Lunch Theorem | Wikipedia
Newell, Simon, and Shaw Develop the First Artificial Intelligence Program | History of Information
Bounded Rationality | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
One of These Things | Sesame Street
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi | Amazon
Educating Intuition by Robin M. Hogarth | Amazon
Implicit Learning and Tacit Knowledge | Journal of Experimental Psychology: General
Pattern Recognition | C8 Sciences
Stoicism Resources and Recommendations | Tim Ferriss
List of Cognitive Biases and Heuristics | The Decision Lab
Lectio Divina: A Beginner’s Guide | Busted Halo
Contemplation vs. Meditation (What’s the Difference?) | Mindfulness Box
Meditation and Contemplation with Dr. John Vervaeke | Consciousness & Conscience
Philosophical Fellowship: Demonstration of the Practice | Voices with Vervaeke
Christianity and Agape | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #16
What is the Circling Method? | The Circling Institute
Contemplating in Togetherness from Our Inner Depth | Deep Philosophy
Omnipresence | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Euclid’s Elements (The Thirteen Books) by Euclid | Amazon
The Religion of No Religion | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #39
Dialectic into Dia-logos | After Socrates #3
The Symbol, Sacredness, and the Sacred | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #35
Plato and the Cave | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #5
Religio/Perennial Problems/Reverse Eng. Enlightenment | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #36
The Summa Theologiæ of St. Thomas Aquinas | New Advent
What Is Sufism? | Institute for Global Change
Corbin and the Divine Double | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #48
Embodiment and Auto Poiesis (Clip) | John Vervaeke
Plotinus and Neoplatonism | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #18
Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry | Amazon
John Vervaeke: The Book That Changed My Life | Rebel Wisdom
What Is Ancient Philosophy? by Pierre Hadot | Amazon
Awakening From the Meaning Crisis Book List | John Vervaeke
Great Dialogues of Plato by Plato | Amazon
Ah, Not to Be Cut Off by Rainer Maria Rilke | The Living Room
Archaic Torso of Apollo by Rainer Maria Rilke | Vox Populi
Ascension, 1965 | John Coltrane Quartet
Agape and 4E Cognitive Science | Awakening from the Meaning Crisis #38
Cognition In the Wild by Edwin Hutchins | Amazon
Brain in a Vat — Making Philosophy Manifest by Steve Jurvetson | Flickr
Steve Jurvetson — The Midas Touch and Mind-Bending Futures | The Tim Ferriss Show #317
Descartes’ Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain by António Damásio | Amazon
Exaptations | Understanding Evolution
The Brain Evolved to Guide Action | The Wiley Handbook of Evolutionary Neuroscience
John Vervaeke: The Three Questions About Consciousness | Consciousness and Conscience Conference
Qualia | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Panpsychism | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Property Dualism | Rebus Community
William Seager: How Strong Are the Arguments for Panpsychism? | Visualizing Minds
John Vervaeke: Jordan Peterson & the Meaning Crisis | Rebel Wisdom
Luke 15:11-32: The Prodigal Son | Bible Gateway
Pageau, Vervaeke, Peterson: Deeper Yet Into The Weeds | The Dr. Jordan B. Peterson Podcast #277
Postmodernism | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Marxism and Crypto‐Marxism | The New York Times
Return to the Source Seminar | Evolve Move Play
Other Minds | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
Epistemology | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
SHOW NOTES
[05:31] The four ways of knowing (4P).
[10:15] Affordances.
[13:04] Semantic memory.
[13:37] Flow.
[27:03] Did John find Tai Chi, or did Tai Chi find him?
[29:46] Leaving Christianity.
[34:42] Wisdom vs. knowledge.
[36:54] Self-deception.
[41:53] When is logic the illogical choice for solving a problem?
[46:05] The powers and perils of intuition.
[55:05] Spotting patterns that need breaking.
[59:18] Meditation vs. contemplation.
[1:05:30] Misunderstanding love.
[1:06:36] Circling.
[1:12:28] “God is related to the world the way the mind is related to the body.”
[1:14:34] A non-theist in the no-thingness.
[1:24:03] Responsive poiesis and Sufism.
[1:27:31] Neoplatonism.
[1:29:16] Seminal moments.
[1:31:36] Pierre Hadot.
[1:32:43] Two books.
[1:34:38] Potent poetry.
[1:37:40] The four Es.
[1:42:38] Two bonus Es.
[1:45:24] Heretical beliefs.
[1:54:12] Panpsychism.
[2:00:56] Most unusual modes of cognition.
[2:02:37] Jordan Peterson.
[2:10:27] Opponent processing.
[2:13:53] How to support friends endeavoring to lead meaningful lives.
[2:17:50] After Socrates.
[2:21:44] Western words.
[2:25:11] John’s changing perspective of experienced reality.
[2:28:01] Something old, something new.
MORE JOHN VERVAEKE QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW
“Knowledge is about overcoming ignorance. Wisdom is about overcoming foolishness. So you understand wisdom by understanding foolishness, and you understand foolishness as not identical to ignorance.”
— John Vervaeke
“Stop demonizing any faculty and stop deifying any faculty. Your intuition will lead you as much wrong as your reason, as much wrong as your emotions, as much wrong as your logic.”
— John Vervaeke
“The very processes that make us intelligent problem solvers [and] make us so adaptive are the very same processes that make us prone to self-deceptive, self-destructive behavior.”
— John Vervaeke
“We pick up on all kinds of complex patterns that are not real and we form intuitions around them, but when we don’t like our intuition, we don’t call it intuition, we call it bias or prejudice or racism or sexism or a whole bunch of other things.”
— John Vervaeke
“Logic does not tell you how to go from a weaker logic to a stronger logic. I can do all the possible manipulations within predicate logic and it won’t get me to motor logic. I have to do something outside of that to actually increase my logical competence. So there’s no panacea.”
— John Vervaeke
“Yes, your emotions can lead you astray, but try living without them and see how rational you can be.”
— John Vervaeke
“I don’t like the argument that goes, ‘Consciousness is weird, quantum is weird, therefore consciousness is quantum.’ That’s just ridiculous. Now, panpsychism is a different thing. And you don’t have to be convinced about quantum stuff to be a panpsychist.”
— John Vervaeke
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